on the occasion of the presentation of the new CD "ZARTIR" by the Gurdjieff Ensemble
Jul 16, 2024
SH Zartir is the third CD realized by the Gurdjieff Ensemble, which you founded in 2008 and direct since then. All three CDs have been released on the legendary ECM label. The first one (2011) is simply called: The Music of G.I. Gurdjieff. It consists of your re-arrangements for Armenian and Middle Eastern traditional instruments of melodies that Gurdjieff collected and arranged for piano with the help of the Russian composer Thomas de Hartmann. The second CD (2015) is dedicated to the most iconic figure of more recent cultural history of Armenia: the priest, composer, singer and ethnomusicologist Komitas Vardapet. In your arrangements for folk instrument, his transparent, filigree pieces for piano appear in a more ‘full-bodied’ sonority. And yet, with your third CD, you return to Gurdjieff and at the same time expand the repertoire of the ensemble, placing his music in a broader context and putting it in ‘dialogue’ with the ashughs Sayat-Nova, Baghtasar Dpir and Ashugh Jivani. But how did it start, what was the very first impulse of performing Gurdjieff’s music?
LE The first time I heard Gurdjieff’s music was through a recording by the cellist Anja Lechner, produced by ECM Records. I vividly remember the impression it left on us as my wife, Lusine Grigoryan—who is also from Gyumri, Gurdjieff’s birthplace—and I listened to it together. We immediately felt a deep familiarity in his music. Driven by this connection, I sought out all available recordings, including those by Thomas de Hartmann, Keith Jarrett, Rosenthal, Kremsky, and Gurdjieff’s own harmonium recordings, as well as the “Gurdjieff Oriental Suite” and many more.Inspired, I began arranging Gurdjieff’s music for traditional instruments, feeling a need to understand his music more deeply. This led to the formation of the Gurdjieff Ensemble to perform these arrangements. Our debut concerts in Armenia caught the attention of Armenian composer Tigran Mansurian, who introduced our video recording to Manfred Eicher, the founder of ECM Records. This resulted in our first album, “The Music of Georges I. Gurdjieff.” Even then, I had envisioned incorporating ashughs’ music alongside Gurdjieff’s in one of our future albums. Gurdjieff’s father was an ashugh, and the environment of ashughs in Gyumri greatly influenced Gurdjieff’s interests and quests. In fact, I included a photo of Ashugh Jivani in the booklet of our first album. With “Zartir,” we finally had the chance to bring together the music of ashughs and Gurdjieff.
LS The piano pieces by Gurdjieff and de Hartman have become particularly famous through the interpretations of musicians such as Alain Kremsky, Keith Jarrett and Herbert Henck. You have undertaken a challenging venture: to ’re-translate’ this music for traditional instruments, bringing it closer to the original state in which Gurdjieff is said to have heard and collected it. The return to the ‘original’ is still a utopia. Of course, it isn’t matter of ‘philology’ here. This search for the original (that is also a search for the ‘Origin’, if we may say) also brings into play your own sonic imagination as a composer. How great do you think is the influence of your own ‘handwriting’?
LE True, in the sense of bringing the music closer to the original sonorities, similar to how Gurdjieff must have heard it during his journeys. It is important to note that some of these pieces were orally transmitted parallel to Gurdjieff, and some melodies were even written by other composers of his time, such as Komitas. However, in these pieces, we primarily find Gurdjieff’s compositional imagination and his quest for truth, which took him from the East to the West, and all of this is present in his music. My approach to arranging his pieces is an exercise in objectivity. I have carefully examined the combination of instruments that each of these ethnic groups had or still have today. For example, Armenian songs, Greek ancient melodies, Sayyids that resemble Arabic and Middle Eastern music, Kurdish shepherd melodies, and so on. I also consider the anthropological perspective to create ethnographically authentic arrangements. I did not seek to create beautiful arrangements; my search was for objectivity. However, it is also true that anything we do will for sure carry a trace of our imagination.
LS In an interview with the New York Times, you said that Gurdjieff had planned to give concerts using “forty instruments he had collected on his travels”. What about that? Do you know exactly what these instruments were?
LE Yes, that was announced in 1923 after their concerts at the Champs-Élysées, where Gurdjieff prepared demonstrations. At that time, he had also hired a large symphonic orchestra to play some of his music, orchestrated by him and T. de Hartmann. In the program, it was mentioned that his music would be played on forty instruments he had collected during his travels. Unfortunately, we do not have detailed information about which specific instruments these were. However, based on the number and variety, we can infer that they were quite diverse. Gurdjieff’s travels took him from Armenia through the Middle East and Asia, so it’s likely he collected instruments from these regions.
Our ensemble includes about sixteen instruments used in Armenia, the Middle East, and some parts of Asia. I believe Gurdjieff had similar instruments among the forty he collected. In his orchestral arrangements, I can identify how he used classical instruments to imitate traditional ones—for instance, using the clarinet and oboe to mimic the duduk, the flute for the ney, and the viola for the kamancha and etc…
SH From Gurdjieff to Komitas and back to Gurdjieff. They have one thing in common: both have collected traditional melodies, not only from Armenia but also from neighbour countries. And both have transcribed them for piano. But while Komitas strives to express ‘Armenianness’ in its most essential and ‘pure’ state, we see that Gurdjieff doesn’t dispense with Arabic, Persian, Caucasian in the broadest sense, and even Greek elements. The same contradiction seems to be in the spiritual background of both. On the one hand the Christian orthodoxy of Komitas as a priest, on the other hand the mystical syncretism of Gurdjieff. At the same time, we know that Gurdjieff was attracted to the figure of Komitas and even planned to visit him. Do you know if they actually met? And how do you see the connection between these seemingly different worlds?
LE It might seem like they come from different worlds, but they share a similar essence. Both Komitas and Gurdjieff made significant contributions to ethnomusicology by preserving and composing piano pieces based on traditional melodies, providing invaluable insights into the musical heritage of Armenia, the Middle East, and even Asia. Rooted in tradition, they adapted these melodies in innovative ways: Komitas’ arrangements highlight the modal and rhythmic intricacies of Armenian music, creating a unique musical language in classical music derived from Armenian rhythmic patterns and modal structures. Gurdjieff’s transcriptions, on the other hand, incorporate diverse stylistic elements, resulting in a unique and eclectic musical language. Komitas, as a Vardapet (celibate priest), imbued his work with Christian orthodoxy, closely tied to the traditions of the Armenian Apostolic Church. In contrast, Gurdjieff’s mystical syncretism drew from a wide array of spiritual traditions, including Eastern Orthodox Christianity, Sufism, Buddhism, Hinduism, ancient rituals, and esoteric teachings. This eclectic spirituality is reflected in the diversity of his musical influences. In fact, I had to study the music of Komitas and read his articles and studies to arrange the music of Gurdjieff. Learning Gurdjieff’s music and working with the ensemble gave me insights into performing Komitas’ music. After our premiere of the Komitas program, some ensemble musicians remarked, “Can you imagine how we would have performed Komitas’ music if our first program hadn’t been Gurdjieff’s?” We know from T. de Hartmann that Gurdjieff sent de Hartmann to Yerevan to study Komitas, seeking a better understanding of how his music should be written. Gurdjieff was in France when Komitas was in a mental hospital, and he might have visited Komitas. We assume he did, as both were close friends with the Armenian poet Avetik Isahakyan, whose son documented their visits to Gurdjieff and their time spent with him in Fontainebleau. However, we don’t have concrete evidence of such a meeting.
LS You often mention the importance of Gurdjieff’s spiritual teachings. What came first for you? Did you discover his philosophy through the music or vice versa?
LE At first, I heard about Gurdjieff and some interesting aspects of his teachings, but my initial encounter was through his music. At that same period, there were seminars in Yerevan organized by people from the New York Foundation, including Lilian Firestone and members from affiliate groups worldwide. I met them and had the opportunity to start studying his methods.
I think, as humans, we are born close to nature but gradually become overwhelmed by the vanities that shape our personal lives. Over time, we become mechanical, and breaking habits through self-observation is key to self-development. It is crucial to remember that our mind, emotions, and physical centers must work harmoniously together. This concept is particularly significant for musicians, as creating or performing music demands such an approach, and without it, you will not get music anyway. Additionally, I emphasize the importance of studying the context, period, and background of any composer while performing their works; then, intuition will start working in a more clever way.
SH Unlike in France, Italy and some other Western countries, Gurdjieff’s philosophy does not seem to be so widely known in his native Armenia. Do you know of any Gurdjieff societies or reading groups that deal with his thought in Armenia?
LE Interestingly, there’s been growing interest in Gurdjieff recently. Some of his books have been translated, probably our recordings also helped to introduce, many people have become acquainted with his ideas. There are also groups studying his methods; one group that I know formed in 2007 by Lilian Firestone operates under the Gurdjieff Foundation of New York and is active.
SH With this CD, the ensemble expands its repertoire by performing, in addition to Gurdjieff’s music, four other pieces by Armenian ashughs (‘wandering musicians’, a kind of troubadours). One piece is by Baghdasar Dpir (1683-1768) and another one by Ashugh Jivani (1846-1909). Two other pieces are by Sayat-Nova (1712-1795), perhaps the most famous Armenian poet and musician. These pieces are an exception in the entire repertoire of your ensemble, because they use singing, i.e. the human voice. Besides that, they are not ‘transcriptions’, as they have been created and performed over the centuries with more or less similar instrumentation: solo voice, tar, dap, blul and other traditional instruments. Nevertheless, in this recording these well-known ashugh pieces have a special, even ‘Gurdjieffian’ aura. Did you decide to juxtapos the music of the ashughs with that one of Gurdjieff in order to make clear the affinities?
LE Gurdjieff’s father was an ashugh, and Gurdjieff talked about the profound impact of ashugh songs he heard in Gyumri. As a result, Gurdjieff’s music was undeniably influenced by these ashughs. In our performances of ashugh songs, we aimed to recreate a setting that reflects their traditional arrangements. Early 20th-century recordings, photographs of ensemble formations, and oral transmission traditions provided valuable insights. However, my arrangement of Baghdasar Dpir’s song “Zartir” is the result of my imagination, done from a melody that only the vocal part exists. Despite this, the similarity in performance and interpretation might come from my understanding and perception of these kind of music.
LS The cover image of this CD has a strong suggestive power. It’s actually an excerpt from Sergei Parajanov’s cult film about Sayat Nova, The Color of Pomegranate. Why did you choose this image?
LE Covers for ECM productions are mainly chosen by it’s founder, Manfred Eicher, I suggested this image to Manfred and he decided to use it, for a few reasons it was excellent choice to use: It’s an evocative image, resembling Sayat Nova in the film and also has the essence of Gurdjieff’s music and ashughs in general.
LS Gurdjieff and Parajanov are both, in a certain sense, ‘tricksters’ or ‘sly men’. They are still now major figures in Armenian culture, but spent little time in the native country. Do you see any affinities between them?
LE G.I. Gurdjieff and Sergei Parajanov are indeed intriguing figures in Armenian culture. Both Gurdjieff and Parajanov were innovative and had non-comformist approaches, both have mystical esoteric elements in their works. Gurdjieff’s teachings are mystical, drawing from a wide array of esoteric traditions. Gurdjieff’s philosophy revolves around the idea of awakening to higher states of consciousness through self-observation and inner work. Parajanov’s films are imbued with symbolism and mystical elements, often exploring themes of spirituality, mythology, and the transcendental. Parajanov’s visual storytelling often evokes a sense of the mystical and the otherworldly. Gurdjieff Integrated various spiritual traditions, including Sufism, Christianity, Buddhism, and more, into his teachings. His work transcends cultural and religious boundaries.Parajanov’s films often blend cultural motifs from different traditions. They both share a spirit of rebellion against the ordinary and a profound ability to synthesize diverse cultural elements into their works, to shape their imagination. The work of both are for all humanity in general.
SH The eponymous work on this album is the chant Zartir by the musician, philosopher and scientist Baghdasar Dpir. It means “Wake up!”. The text of this song is quite cryptic. It begins with the words “From your royal slumber, wake, my gracious one, wake”. But who is being addressed? Is it a lament for the death of a loved one? Or is it a plea to a beloved woman to accept his love? We know that the core of Gurdjieff’s spiritual teaching is awakening. He claims that people are normally asleep, even when they think they are awake. The title of his last book is: Life is real only then, when ‘I am’. What does this ‘royal slumber’ mean to you?
LE “Royal slumber” in the chant Zartir can be understood as a multifaceted metaphor. On a personal level, it could relate to themes of love and loss, while on a philosophical and spiritual level, it resonates deeply with Gurdjieff’s teachings on awakening. It calls for a transformation from a state of unconsciousness to one of heightened awareness and presence, urging both individuals and communities to recognize their abilities, responsibilities towards their self and self development, and I perceive towards their role in the whole chain of existence, to focus and concentrate to always remember yourself , everywhere, to remember to brake the habits, to get awake from the mechanical way of living, acting, you might help yourself to remember by means of self observation, though difficult, such calls or a song like Zartir might be one of the things to help you remember.
SH As well as playing traditional music, you have also commissioned several composers to write works for your ensemble, such as the Syrian composer Kinan Azmeh, or one of the leading composers in Armenia today, Tigran Mansurian. Is it possible that you will commission more works from contemporary composers in the near future? And what kind of possibilities do you see having such cooperations?
LE That was a special project, a collaboration between the Morgenland Festival, the Elbphilharmonie, Boulez Hall, and the Holland Festival. Based on our initiative these festivals and halls commissioned works from Armenian composer Tigran Mansurian and Syrian composer Isam Rafea for the Gurdjieff Ensemble and Hewar ensemble to perform together, using all the traditional instruments our ensemble plays, plus voice, clarinet, viola, and cello. This fusion resulted in an interesting combination of sonorities. In the future, I foresee continued collaborations between the Gurdjieff Ensemble and various choirs, classical orchestras, and other instrumental groups. There will be new works written and explorations of different sonorities. However, in everything we do, we maintain the aesthetics of Gurdjieff. He sought to bridge the gap between the inner spiritual practices of the East and the rational knowledge of the West. There is an aphorism attributed to his ideas: “Take the understanding of the East and the knowledge of the West—and then seek.” That’s what we’ve been trying to do.
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Author’s notes
This is an extract from a long conversation we had with Levon Eskenian on the occasion of the release of the CD “Zartir”, the third album by Ensemble Gurdjieff, and it’s performances in Italy, Switzerland and Armenia.
The full interview will be published soon in connection with the Gurdjieff Ensemble’s upcoming concerts at the Dolomites Festival (Italy), at Opéra de Rouen (France), at Euphonie International Festival (Poland) in the Pierre Boulez Saal (Germany).
The album is available here: https://ecmrecords.com/product/zartir-the-gurdjieff-ensemble-levon-eskenian/